Backgammon Online

21-Oct-2013
23:03 PST

Hi everyone! We are in the last 20 days of our tourney! Let's get those matches in - I see most of you are well on your way. I sent out 3 challenges tonight, thinking, man, I've only got 20 days left!

It's been a pretty tame tourney, with lots of great matches, and no fireworks. I like that. I feel like, well, I hope I've been doing my job, because it hasn't taken much!

We do have a proposal on the table, and may need a poll set up. The proposal is that those who don't finish enough of their games do not get to play in the next tourney, as people have actually been left out of the playoffs by not getting enough wins in.

I have an option: it seems perhaps a bit complicated though, and I am afraid it may be admin heavy. I am willing to complete the spreadsheet as needed this tournament.

A slow player will be defined as one who finishes less then 80% of their games by the tourney end date (in our case Nov.11). in our present tourney, that would be someone who finishes only 26 games or less out of 32.

Slow player games will be immediately removed from the board. Players with slow-player games left to play who are NOT slow players will have wins added to their total based on percentages won so far.

Eg. Player 1 finished 27 of his games out of 32, 5 remaining were against slow players. his win total was 15-12, for a winning percentage of 55.56%. 55.56% of the 5 remaining games is 2.78, rounded to 3 games. Player 1's final total is 18-14, adding 3 wins and 2 losses from the 5 remaining games. Winning percentage of 56.25%

Perchance we won't round, and actually leave part games in the win and loss column, just in case the rounding actually favours someone so much that someone else gets left out.

Thoughts? I'm sure the idea needs tweeking, but it sure will get around people getting bumped out because they didn't get the wins they should have.

LW

21-Oct-2013
23:03 PST

And I still think, in light of all, that slow players should have to skip a tournament as well. It's just not fair to the rest of the players.

22-Oct-2013
09:24 PST

I wouldn't support anyone getting a free win for a match they haven't played. For example, if a player had reached your cut off point for slow play but only had a 50/50 chance of qualifying, they'd be better off slowing down their remaining games in the hope that some of their opponents are then classed as slow players thus giving them free wins in matches they may be loosing. This is not fair on any player who has played and maybe lost a match. Imagine finishing all your games and getting knocked out by someone who only had to play 2 or 3 matches less than you but got 2 or 3 points for nothing.

All players regardless of their speed should be welcome in these tournaments, not everyone has as much time to commit as others may have. There is also other considerations such as game limits for non subscription members, players not changing their settings so others can't challenge them due to their rating etc. At the end of the day, it's the format that is the biggest factor in the time it takes to complete a tournament. If people want faster tournaments (like I do) the best thing to do would be to try another format.

22-Oct-2013
11:11 PST

...that some won''t support giving a free win (and/or a free loss) to a player for a match they haven't played. Yet they are ok with removing an actual win (and/or an actual loss) from a player simply because of another player who withdraws or is removed from the T due to slow play. Imagine getting knocked out of the finals because completed and recorded wins were removed from you, and/or completed and recorded losses were removed from your opponents.

By signing up for T4, we agreed to abide by all of the rules that were clearly posted by lilwarrior. I agree that all players should be welcome to these Ts -- but only if they abide by the rules. If a player fails to abide by the rules then there should be a penalty. Otherwise why have any rules at all? One of the rules we agreed to was that we would complete all of our matches by the specified date.

I fully support requiring a player to sit out the next T if they withdraw or otherwise fail to complete their matches by the deadline. Whether this will serve as a deterrent to future slow play is yet to be determined. However, if there is no penalty it appears that there will always be some players who realize they aren't going to make the finals and stop playing. I also fully support lilwarrior's 80% remedy unless someone else comes up with a better idea. It fairly awards both wins and losses based on the player's % record at the end of the T and still gives a break to those who at least finish 80% of their matches (by not removing them from the T). I agree with PH in one respect -- if people want slower T's the best thing would be to try a format where there is no time limit stated in the rules.

22-Oct-2013
13:26 PST

uahskr, you're correct, the rules were posted before people signed up, however, the application of the rules is still being played with. It's not right that the practical application of the rules is not set at the same time as the rules themselves, i.e. before any tournament starts.

Also, if you read my post you'll see that I was advocating altering the format to obtain faster T's not slower as you stated. The point being that all players regardless of their rate of play should be encouraged to take part in T's.

To be honest I'd rather play "slow" players who are happy to play anyone regardless before any player who would back banning another player from future T's because they don't suit their own speed.

22-Oct-2013
13:29 PST

Let me chime in. The main point is that a deadline has been agreed to. If players can't meet that deadline, then in the future it would behoove us to find a format that helps enforce it. Players are obviously dropping games played when it's obvious they won't make the medal round, and that action is penalizing other players, since they aren't getting the wins, wins they could have obtained, that they need to make the medal round. We need to have a solution to this problem.

22-Oct-2013
13:38 PST

We are being asked to state our opinions about how to proceed and then ostensibly take a vote just as we did in T2. The current practical application of rules states, There will be a time limit to finish all of the round robin games. The consensus in opinion seems to be 2 months, which will make the final day November 11 2013. ANY GAMES NOT COMPLETED BY THIS DAY WILL BE ELIMINATED FROM THE STANDINGS. **Some exceptions may be made on a game by game basis, depending on how close the game is to being finished**.

I don't support banning a player because they don't suit my speed, but rather support banning players who don't adhere to the rules. Lilwarrior is doing his best to relax those rules somewhat. I agree with his approach and will vote accordingly. We just happen to disagree which is fine. I appreciate the opportunity to state my opinion on how things should evolve and know you do too. As always the majority shall rule.  

22-Oct-2013
15:19 PST

Slow players (could be defined as <80% of completed matches by the deadline) should not be admitted to the next tournament.

As to what to do with the unfinished games - we have already discussed this issue many times, we had already voted on this with more than 50% saying "Delete players and all their games". LW's option is nice but we might want to use it next time. I believe that for the current tournament we have to use the rule we agreed upon before the tournament started.

24-Oct-2013
05:02 PST

... I had to look it up! what a great word  

24-Oct-2013
05:04 PST

Are you out there!?

I've PM'd a couple of times with no luck. Anyone know anything, we need to get started